Prozac and ChatGPT: How Technology is Changing the Way We See Ourselves - Ep. 15 with Peter D. Kramer

Antidepressants changed my life. I have OCD and antidepressants did what nearly a decade of therapy, meditation, and supplements couldn’t: they allowed me to live my life without being in a 24/7 spiral. (Bonus: they actually made therapy and meditation far more helpful once they started to work.) I think antidepressants are seriously misunderstood. Yes, they [blunt negative emotions](https://web.archive.org/web/[redacted card]/https://lorienpsych.com/2020/10/25/ssris/#1_What_do_SSRIs_do). But they also operate on personality and sense of self: they can make you bolder, less sensitive to failure, and less risk-averse. In short: they are a technology that changes how we see ourselves and the world. That’s why I invited Dr. Peter D. Kramer on my show. Dr. Kramer is a psychiatrist and the author of eight books, including [Listening to Prozac](https://www.amazon.com/Listening-Prozac-Landmark-Antidepressants-Remaking/dp/[redacted phone]), which is an international bestseller. He has practiced psychiatry and taught psychotherapy at Brown University for nearly four decades. Listening To Prozac is one of my favorite books, and it documents Dr. Kramer’s experiences as a psychiatrist seeing how antidepressants like Prozac changed his patients’ sense of self and personality. Now, you might be wondering why have him on a show about ChatGPT? Well, technology can change who we are **even if it comes as a software product rather than a pill. It’s undoubtedly true that as generations of humans learn to live with AI, it will change what it means to be human—and how we see ourselves and the world. I think that can be a good thing, but it could also be scary. I wanted to talk to Dr. Kramer about his book, and see if we could apply some of his insights in Prozac to ChatGPT. It was an incredible conversation, and I was honored to talk to him. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Want even more? Sign up for Every to unlock ourultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free. To hear more from Dan Shipper: Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper To learn more about the topics in this episode: [Listening to Prozac](https://www.amazon.com/Listening-Prozac-Landmark-Antidepressants-Remaking/dp/[redacted phone]) by Peter D. Kramer ChatGPT and the Future of the Human Mind by Dan Shipper [SSRIs](https://web.archive.org/web/[redacted card]/https://lorienpsych.com/2020/10/25/ssris/#1_What_do_SSRIs_do) by Scott Alexander Links to resources mentioned in the episode: Dr. Peter D. Kramer: https://twitter.com/PeterDKramer ChatGPT and the Future of the Human Mind by Dan Shipper: https://every.to/chain-of-thought/chatgpt-and-the-future-of-the-human-mind *Listening to Prozac * by Dr. Kramer: [https://www.amazon.com/Listening-Prozac-Landmark-Antidepressants-Remaking/dp/[redacted phone]](https://www.amazon.com/Listening-Prozac-Landmark-Antidepressants-Remaking/dp/[redacted phone]) *Should You Leave? *by Dr. Kramer: [https://www.amazon.com/Should-You-Leave-Psychiatrist-Autonomy/dp/[redacted phone]](https://www.amazon.com/Should-You-Leave-Psychiatrist-Autonomy/dp/[redacted phone]) *Against Depression *by Dr. Kramer: [https://www.amazon.com/Against-Depression-Peter-D-Kramer/dp/[redacted phone]](https://www.amazon.com/Against-Depression-Peter-D-Kramer/dp/[redacted phone]) *Ordinarily Well *by Dr. Kramer: [https://www.amazon.com/Ordinarily-Well-Antidepressants-Peter-Kramer/dp/[redacted phone]](https://www.amazon.com/Ordinarily-Well-Antidepressants-Peter-Kramer/dp/[redacted phone]) Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote by Jorge Luis Borges: https://raley.english.ucsb.edu/wp-content/Engl10/Pierre-Menard.pdf *The Soul of A New Machine *by Tracy Kidder: [https://www.amazon.com/Soul-New-Machine-Tracy-Kidder/dp/[redacted phone]](https://www.amazon.com/Soul-New-Machine-Tracy-Kidder/dp/[redacted phone]) *Making Hay *by Verlyn Klinkenborg: [https://www.amazon.com/Making-Hay-Verlyn-Klinkenborg/dp/[redacted phone]](https://www.amazon.com/Making-Hay-Verlyn-Klinkenborg/dp/[redacted phone]) *Oranges *by John McPhee: [https://www.amazon.com/Oranges-John-McPhee/dp/[redacted phone]](https://www.amazon.com/Oranges-John-McPhee/dp/[redacted phone])